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I have some questions about your fights:

What's the class setup did you use? (How many warriors, rogues, sages?)

Why did you, a warrior, enter first? Shove the speedy rogue to the front. Even with normal epic/green gears they should be faster than all but the Spellsword. After taking one hit, the rogue can then cloak, wait for the reinforcement of round 2.

Against 8 Gateburners, of course def heavy gears is recommended for taunting. See my previous Pub thread. I said my warrior went def heavy gears first before going in. But, as you can also see there, the fight was still under 30 rounds long. I had only one warrior to carry all the weight / duty of taunting, battlecry, HtL and dealing damage. No warrior backup to speak off. Despite not wearing damage heavy gears, warriors still hit hard, ya know.

(See the pub thread for play by play. You'll see how with effective taunt, my 3 other non warr chars have free range of movement running with low hp, vs Cap'n Jack and vs 8 Gateburners. I had what's considered to be the one of the hardest team setups: W/R/R/S, aka 2 healers only: the sage and the warrior. Even harder would be just one healer setup.)

Did you fight without a sage? Or, as the only warrior? Why did you have to heal yourself alone by yourself?

If you have a sage with you, instruct him/her to Heal/Bless you and only you (if you're the only warrior taunting). The other players can wait for mass heal from Ritual or Lifetap, since they are in no danger of getting hit.... as long as they don't put themselves in harm way.

That means:

• Staying clear of of mobs directly next to the taunting warriors (in case the mob casts AoE).
• Be mindful of tile position and mob movement: don't park midway between distant mobs and the taunting warrior. If the mobs approach the warrior and stop next to them, guess what? Even taunted, since they can't hit the warr, they're gonna hit the next best "target of opportunity".
• Sometimes the best move for them is NOT to make one at all. But, don't worry, this is rare. That's why you need to be able to spot it when it occurs. Think strategically (see above two points).
• Look for taunted enemy that can still move to approach taunter. This is the safe target to hit (f you have no range skills at all available that round.) Again, this is common. Most of the time, you'll be able to close in and melee.

Have team that understand what I recommend. I encourage you to try again. You'll be expertly taunting, every time, in no time.

If you have two warriors, or more. That's even better. Take turns taunting between cooldown. Heed my advice above and my warning from the Pub about invaders.

Have anymore questions for suggestions, post it here.

Edited:

Reply to post 14404 - It's a must. You just need to learn to use it well, and have the trusted teammates that knows what they have to do to take the full advantage of the situation, and to back you up when needed.

Originally Posted by Ethelred1 »... they are simply arguing that other skills are more useful.

Read previous posts again. That's exactly the point I'm making a case over. Mind you, I'm not saying it's "THE most useful" skill. But, definitely a must have and mustn't shelved skill.

You're absolutely right about seeing fights case by case for deciding which skill(s) to use. But, that's just like saying I don't use Ritual on every fight, despite it being one of the best of sage's skills (which is true, I sometimes don't need to cast Ritual.) Ritual, taunt, etc., etc., are all subject to fight demand.

Sorry to dissappoint. I tried to think of a way to insult you in reply. But, can't think of any . Unless, you want to count the prior paragraphs as insult. Then my job is done.

Edited:

@ samcarternx - Grats

@ D'th - Don't worry about using Suppress. It's extremely useful to lower their speed (see simply fact #2 previously) and it'll keep (especially taunted enemy) crawling, struggling to reach their target, if they have to range attack. Snipe with impunity


@ Tricki - Well, this isn't gears thread but skills one. BTW, my test rogue is a total freeloader, only the 2nd rogue to hit 30 first (the first was my main rogue), and probably around the 10th overall, idk exactly. But, even I don't think that has anything to do with your assessment of my pro status. That's not why I'm a pro. It's my grasp of knowledge of classes' skills and how they interact with each other in battle. That's why .

You're right, there's no one hit wonder skill. But, there are those you don't leave home without to make your life (and your teammates') easier, or even turning a lose situation into victory.

You're right too about the pro or noob and pointlessness of those who need to proof something. Why must a confident person bother at all with my statement ?

And last, throwing rock *is * useful. At least this post skill tree era. Here's my previous review on the subject:

Originally Posted by Irrational Abstract »...
Considering that the newly introduced diminished return pretty much robs rogues (and everybody else) from crit and speed cap (50), and considering the new cap is now 99 (crit, def and speed), this is the way to counter that.

If you choose the left path of Cold Blood, and you have upgraded to Blaze Stones, you will always use 2 skills per round. The first moves will be alternating Noxious Blood / Blaze Stones while the second moves will be other skills, all of which enjoy a critical boost of 10% or 40%.

You can always tell if my rogue had been fighting in the area by the amount of leftover gravels littered about

This post has been moderated by Alaleh at May 3, 2012 08:21 PM.

This post has been moderated by Alaleh at May 3, 2012 08:27 PM.

This post has been moderated by Alaleh at May 3, 2012 08:21 PM.

This post has been moderated by Alaleh at May 3, 2012 08:16 PM.

Originally Posted by Ethelred1 »you would have to show that it was NEVER preferable to have a different skill along.

I said already that a group can still win despite leaving a few crucial skills behind. Does that mean those skills left behind are moot then? No. That would be fallacy.

If you want to look it another way: I tried to solo BtR a while back without bringing Ritual in with me, personal blonde moment . Doable. But, will I repeat that? No!

Another way to look at it: say I'm a non-warrior group captain picking a team out of the line up. First order of business, picking the warrior. There are two warriors present. Both warriors have the same gears. But, one is a well known and adept taunter. The other one not so much. Guess who's I'm gonna pick? I know I'll be taking less damage and be better protected by picking the adept taunter. In short: other people's preference matters.

Hmm? I did not "tone down" or "tone up" anything. Nor, will I ever bother. I call it as it is, the brutal truth. My position still stands. It's not my problem if those can't understand the full potential of taunt stomp their feet in tantrum. I'll never have to bear grouping with but the very best anyway . One of the facts of life: not everybody can become expert, no matter how blue a mentor's face turns trying to. And, I definitely am no mentor, nor will I ever bother trying to be .

You know, I just may invent myself a new drinking game: every time Witte uses an exclamation point, take a chug! Idk what translator you're working with. But, it seems to turn period into exclamation point way too often .

Here's what I read between your lines: "I don't bring taunt because of I just know I'll be killed in the process due to language barrier / inept teammates. Why should I take all the damage for their benefit? I can just as easily satisfy my messiah complex by pretending to be a great awesome warrior and let them take some beating too. We'll be victorious anyway. They won't know the difference."

I've done fighting with strangers, ya know, plenty of times, in the old days. I recall some of the most fun fights are with the quiet ones (had even one on old BtR no less , during pre-skill tree era aka when they are REALLY hard.). Or, when my chatbox was totally out. I had a great time guessing what the teammates trying to do. Great brain work out and intuition exercise . And, when teaming with the chatty ones, I enjoyed the jokes and banter. Good times ... .

So, I most certainly won't dis grouping with strangers. But, that era has passed for me. Surviving is always good. But, thriving is even better. Now, I want more than mere effectiveness. Now, I want speed and efficiency, proficiency.

For you to question my RL is a compliment for me. Looks like I'm getting a hang of this playing the bad guy role .

Famous by playing a game? That's a good one! Thanks for the laugh .

Respect? Another good one. Although not as funny as the previous. Confidence means never having to seek approval from others.

Confidence is the greatest friend. ~ Lao Tzu

As far as greatest friend goes, mine is in surplus . I neither need or seek your respect.

I can tell you another difference between you and I: when it comes to tips and advive, personal feeling will be taken out of the equation. Emotions cloud judgement and impair logical analysis . That isn't just Star Trek's Vulcan's philosophy. It's a well established fact.

Live long and prosper... .

I have to agree with you on one point---You are the resident jackarse! GM's deserve respect, not your constant rants and insults!!!!!!!

thread is LOL
btw it took me lotsa time to read all these posts and understand whats this thread about. when i realize that it's about using taunt (a skill ive always been using like a boss during alpha -beta stage while all refused to) ive to admit IA and me are on the same wave. as he said, taunt is brilliant skill, just know how to useit, and u wont run into troubles.

however i dont agree with the other stuff he said to ridiculize ppl who dont use it, after all eeveryone has a point of view even if he's mistaking.

also smthg required with using taunt is anticipation and homogeneity like he said, so just try to guess what's other players move. if u can, then u r a good player either here or in any other game.

discussing ideas and strategy is good as long as it doesnt lead to the third world war

It's good to agree on something, isn't it?

Did I ever rant about any of the GMs' performance? No.
Did I ever interfere or hinder in any way of them doing their job? No.
Did I ever insult them directly by name when they're doing their job? No.
Did I ever imply or even hinted indirectly about their performance as GM? No.

Now, let's switch the mirror 180 degree, shall we? What's a proper code of conduct for mods? I could list a few do's and don'ts. But, then I'd really be breaking the cardinal rule of internet forums: Mods are always right!

Stripped for science ! Testing how taunting warriors don't have to wear defense heavy gears to pull off a win even vs 8 gateburners. The result:

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Game Over - 30 Rounds

Don't mind the one extra round longer than when was wearing defense heavy gears. I nodded off mid fight ... .

As requested ...

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Game Over - 28 Rounds

Well, I'm just so used to take screencaps from rogue's POV. This time I'm taking the screenie from warrior's POV, so you can witness its skill usage.

I assume you also had companion with you to start, otherwise it's a trials upon trials before finally getting them Sharpshooter not the crit you at the start to much. Notice how I used "5vs8" in the picture folder's name instead of "4vs8".

Below, I took the shield off from the defense setup so it wouldn't obstruct the gears view too much:

Damage Gears:



Defense Gears:

If you are online around the time where there aren't many free rouge around, that is unfortunate, yes . Because teaming with rogues is excellent . However, you can try to recruit even lvl 25 ones. I think they should still be faster than the 24.2 speed of the group of 8's Sharpshooters (they can still cloak first). I think it would be good to build their (non Lvl 30 rogues) confidence too when you and them win over 5 or 8 gateburners .

Ouch, yeah, it's always painful to have teammates that don't support you. Made me wanna bang my head against the wall just from reading that .If only those 3 or 4 warriors setup you had can take turn taunting/HtL/BC, that will make a great team of Gateburners shredder. It would be an awesome sight to behold !

(Wow, I can remember the time when it was sooo hard to find even one high level Wahid warrior to fight BtR . It wasn't that long ago. Time flies ... )

Well, if we want to look on the bright side, only one way for them to go, right? Up (improve), with time. Nadirim is always getting new players too. So, again with time, hopefully people will have plenty of team candidates from all classes to choose from.

The book on team play and the book on solo are different books. I mostly solo for various reasons some are lack of pressures including time( can play at my leisurely pace is high on the list. I never lock my fights, I believe if one is fun more is better. I have met and fought with the best and I am the added to. I also greet players who are somewhat smaller than the lvls we are fighting. My main reason for Unwillful Gathering is to protect these little ones from zeroing out. I am already taking all of the hits so what do I care? The others are included in IA's expert analysis. I have found other skills I chose because they helped me solo. Master Strike side of Focused Strike I chose for at least two reasons. First, lower recharge, I can cycle it fast - 2 turns. It provides a turn of defense. Hold The Line has 1 turn of non existence and timing the master strike to cover the turn is life saving. It can also mitigate damage caused by Slayers Wrath, my token team skill side of Beserk for buffing teammates damage. To those that don't see it, when it is deployed, user lose 30% of his defense. Another bad news is the sun side of Whirlwind. loss of defense is devastating solo - no sage. and even the other side raises vulnerability. This is why the healing side Ambitious Blow is more important to me than the damage side. Every Hp counts, and if I die I lose everything. If I die on a team I can still win. As far as I can remember I have recovered from around 320 hp alone. I am slowly learning how to climb out on limbs with a good sage holding you up. That's when the focus becomes not the lumbering tank, but a dancing killing machine. I'll close with "Victory is life" so stay alive out there.
and btw kudos to Diana41 and the others of that I have seen that exemplify the capabilities of a dancing warrior. from the lumbering tank my admiration to you.

you know what? let us discuss our new lvl 30 skills? i am not yet lvl 30 rofl but it seems rogues are happy with their new skills.

new low recovery record for me last night. 203 hp I think someone there can correct me if that's not right, but looow 200s. I don't think it counts because I had teammates

Originally Posted by samcarternx »...and even the other side raises vulnerability.

Actually, that's mob's vulnerability, not yours . The 2nd right upgrade of Gale path removes the defense penalty.

I too chose the right path for Ambitious Blow. Combined with the dual purge property, it's a no brainer. And, if you wonder just how high it can go in term of healing:



And while we're in subject of maximum healing potential, here rogue's:



And, here's sage's:



(Well, at least what I've tested so far. I know for sure sage and rogue can go a lil bit higher actually. They're not at maximum damage range when those hits were recorded, and as always, I don't even know it those are the hits utilizing the highest random value from the damage range. Only countless probing and testing can reveal that.

As for warrior, theoretically, 7k to 8k heal should still be in the realm of possibility. Whose theory? Mine! )

Thanks Irrational Abstract for correcting me . I needed that. Question - why do I see so often such big chunks of Hp disappear after I use the Whirlwind spell when most other rounds my defense holds pretty well?

IB why dont you make those screenshots without those buffs or debuffs? just plain highest dmg from one class without others classes beneficial buffs or debuffs. i think that is more interesting.