Forum › Suggestions › Bloodthirsty Rhinos and Lamassus

Since no one else seems to bother jump starting a discussion over those two, I think I'll start.

Setting aside some people's opinion that the game testers or whoever approved those mobs' existence were either high or inebriated over the legal limit (or both ) while planting these guys on the map, I can see some use of them there. They do provide enjoyment and challenge for some, while serving as a reminder to those who annoyingly keep spewing the taboo "E" and "S" word during chat. ("Easy" and "Solo" ) . How quickly those bragging fools forget the steroid injection overdose previous patches ago. These topic mobs are a nice reminder how easily devs can turn those "E"s and "S"s into "Nightmares of Nadirim's Street", if they don't STHU .

Having said that, now, here comes the rant.

While I understand the merit of having impossible mobs, I do not understand one tiny bit of having them tied to a quest, two green ones in this case ("Fire Patch" and "In The Sandstorm"). What's the point of having a quest doable only by "cheating" the battle? What's the point of having a quest doable (without cheating) only if a player belongs to one class?

So far, afaik, these quests can be done by "cheating" the system: kill one at a time, then refresh out mid battle. I also heard traveling news from the Hungarian server: a bunch of warriors can do the job. Sages and Rogues got no luv . I have participated in some of these cheating battles, while having no luck finding enough high english server warriors to try the exclusive club route.

My suggestion, either:
A.) Nerf! (duh ) Inject your steroid elsewhere and tranq'd these two.
B.) New level classification for Bloodthirsty Rhinos and Lamassus to new level (30?), since it's currently impossible for a 4-player-MIXED-team-of-similar-level-with-the-mob (25) to tackle the job.
C.) New quest classification from "HARD" to "IMPOSSIBLE!!", as a fair warning. Slap "Proceed at your own risk" to the quest description too. A player who sees that can allocate his/her energy elsewhere first.

Thank you for reading.

above and beyond that these mobs are the best challenge that capped out players have currently, and the idea that the cap will eventually be raised, and knowing that I am neither supporting nor opposing the fact that these groups are tied to quests.....

I dunno about them being impossible for a mixed group. I was with a team of 2 warriors (24 and 25), 1 rogue (25) and 1 sage (25) the other day. We took out the first rhino, we all were in a good place healthwise, and had all just recycled our skills and were well placed to "lather, rinse and repeat." But for a missed Move which prompted an (imho) overly-hasty refresh out by one of the players, I think we were more than well poised to be able to conquer the whole group.

Im not sure Im remembering the group correctly but I think it was GE, Ged, Panti and me. (not exactly a faction of newbs ) Please correct me if Im wrong with the people, because I would love the group's thoughts on this one too... But I think we coulda done it.

Also, one does not simply refresh and join the same fight. I have never seen this happen. However, when the first player dies, another can join from the wait queue and beat on the damaged Rhinos... This may be the trick players use. The players that are not able to simply beat them, of course.

(I have never even tried them for the record; in fact I have problems with dumb scorpions )

I have no problem being proven wrong . But, unless victory can be achieved in a repeatable fashion over these two, I won't retract my impossible tag quite yet (I'd want not only proof. But, testable battle strategy as well). Heck, I will even accept victory 5% of the time to remove the impossible stamp , pure dumb luck included (maybe a downgrade, "Quest Difficulty: EXTREME"). Otherwise, regardless of the upcoming level cap lifting, I stand by my B and C points (A quick reminder: we're speaking in a mix group context here).

Generally speaking, the mob's level MUST and SHOULD reflect adequate game testing. Otherwise, unfamiliar players will only think of the game as a second rate product (no matter how n00bish they actually are despite being a veteran player. I've seen many while playing different games). Afaik, we haven't had a group mob here that a same level group of player isn't capable of tackling. I see no reason to break from that tradition.

Originally Posted by Malcolm Reynolds »Also, one does not simply refresh and join the same fight. I have never seen this happen.

We can't . Game won't let you rejoin ongoing fight if you died (or dc'd ). So far, it's been kill one (sometimes 2) BtR, then all players F5. Or, just kill Lamassu leader then F5.

I totally agree that really shoud have to do something with the level of the mobs.
A lot of times the level of the mobs're very far from the reality..or at least it doesn't show any information.
Just as the case of the Rhinos/Lamassus would be better to show these really lvl30 or something like this,
because these're farly not a fair opponents for a lvl 25 player.
So shortly I just say maybe would be better from the aspect of the balance
if the level of the mobs would be comparable with the level of the players.

Malcolm-- the "refresh out" was what ended our fight, not that I was suggesting someone left and then came back in.

IA-- I don't remember the exact strategy, but the basics were send the lv 25 warr in first to Fear as many as possible, use of Teleport by the sage to bring out one of the rhinos, rogue using Borrowed Power and then being cleansed/buffed by the sage, everyone taking the defense of the target rhino down as much as possible, and then the cleansed/buffed rogue wholloping the rhino with Devistate. While that all was going on, one of the warriors cast Hold the Line to up everybody's defenses, and everyone was healing.

Im not saying it was or would be an easy fight if it had continued, and it would take a team that works well together and all understands the skills of the other classes (which after 25 levels of group quests, I would hope is fairly common) but we were in fine form with power skills out of cooldown when we left.

I am anxious to grab a team like that one to try it again.

These quest are absolutely not impossible. They are hard and it's a challenge to complete them, but games need hard quest too.
Lots of players I know already finished all the green quests. We help each other to achieve them. In fact yesterday we killed a few rhinos and another player finished that quest. These quest (as Angelusmester said in the Hungarian topic) are very good to learn how the skills are working how other classes' skills are working how to play as a team. And it helps to build up a good community in the game. (There were fights where at least 10 players were in the fight.)

So please don't nerf them. (I know it will be easier when the level cap will be increased or the skill changed)
Although it would be great to change the gray rhinos name to somewhat different so players immediately know they don't get quest kills for killing them.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by mrg8472 »Although it would be great to change the gray rhinos name to somewhat different so players immediately know they don't get quest kills for killing them.

Thanks.

I still reported these bug here before these patch..but not happened any fixing till now...sadly.

Yep, tele-swapping strategy with rhinos was also done in An's and wolf's earlier play book, and on mine as well, through the entire rhino battle in fact.

Debuff piling up is a must and a given. Partying with those-who-have-no-clue-how is real PITA otherwise . And, sorry rogues out there, Devastate is a mere debuffer in my team's play book, not a kill blow. That honor is reserved for Morale Breaker, with its maximum 8k-9k damage potential from it's combo in one round, while using Devastate *as* prior debuffer . I'd rather have Devastate in the low hundreds, being used up front, in order to pave the way for Morale Breaker's thousands output.

(I've seen 3k damage output my rogue's Devastate can dish out, with the estimated maximum potential of around 3.5-4k (still untested, but theoretically possible imo). But, that's still less than half of Morale Breaker's maximum potential output. So, using MB as the opening salvo? That's a major no-no in my team )

Instead of wasting Morale Breaker only to utilize its fear, stun bomb is the better alternative. That was the strategy I used yesterday with W/R/R/S setup. The effect is the same, one round of crowd control, with the added benefit of damage debuff, and minus the chaotic mobs' movement. Next round, Poison Cloud, to root them for another 2 rounds. I previously had an idea that 4 rogues can finish the battle using 4 Poison Clouds in 8 rounds = absolute crowd control. But, rhino's Unstoppable/Immunity skill threw that option out the window. (I will test the possibility of stun-stun-poison cloud the next time I have W/R/R/S setup again. If that extends crowd control for one more round, before they cast Unstoppable, it's going to make a huge difference. But. I doubt such Unstoppable delay tbh).

And, just now, Wolf and I had W/R/S/S setup, with a partially similar opening strategy as my yesterday one above. We killed two on the first go, just like yersteday. Then we refreshed out to adjust skills. We managed to kill four that next try, with AC (rogue) KIA around the time of the second rhino kill). Unfortunately, IA's dc hick-ups threw a wrench in the works , ending a rhythmical, tele swapping, battlefield dance. Our 3rd try was almost identical, with IA killed instead of AC after downing 2 rhinos. That seems to be the pattern: 2 rhinos in exchange for one of us. Granted, IA could've survived had we played better, or luckier (1k crit hurts, folks ).

The key seems to be divide and conquer. Spread their damage around the team. One warrior alone cannot bear all that 800 stampeding damage from a single rhino. Two warriors may break the kill-two-but-loose-one pattern, by having that additional Battlecry.

So, yeah. I'll try again . Two wins will revise point A. However, I still hold point B and C valid. The margin of error while battling these things is just oh so very thin.

The game has other "HARD" quests. These two are in a different league. They deserve "EXTREME" status. As I mentioned on the first post: should nerfing them be out of the options, then the quest difficulty rating must be adjusted accordingly.

IMHO, piling 10 players in one battle is just as bad as killing them one refresh at a time. Quest's objective may be met. But, with undesirable methods, unfortunately.

I agree with you on using a hard mob to learn how the skills of all 3 classes working together. I've encountered with a few ... less knowledgeable high levels. Heck, I may even still be one myself . But, again, learning how to team well is not a valid excuse to have such an extreme quest in place. Have an independent impossible mobs separate from quest. People can learn how to team well there.

On the other hand, it's great to have some really challenging option for the most hardcore of high levels (certainly not me!) to pick on, while waiting for levelcap to increase.
i'd prefer to try these guys after i reach say, Lvl 35. LOL
But yeah, the fight is way out of proportion to comparable mobs at same level. Change the mob lvl to 27 maybe? 30? Not reasonable at 25. Not that we would exclude players below that level from getting the quest or trying the battle. Just a warning that these mobs are way stronger than anything we've yet encountered.

Well, tried it again today with W/W/R/S setup. The first try was a repeat of "Buy two for the price of one" performance. One warrior killed at the worst possible time, and soon the second warrior, then F5. The second try was much better . Moved on to Lamassu, found that 4 vs 6 is definitely not as hard as than 4 vs 8 . But, just as nerve wracking . Battles were 66 and 44 minutes long, respectively.

So, still impossible? .... Perhaps not. Hard? [Expletive] yea! If all future new area's mob of the same level (25) are the same caliber, I'm sooo outta here .

Next, gonna try to take them down with W/R/R/S and W/R/S/S setup. I did say two wins as retraction condition. Although both mobs has one win each now, I want to see how W/R/R/S and W/R/S/S setup work first, before calling it final.

P.S.: Thanks, Cyprus, you strong, silent type, you . (Is your keyboard even working? LOL)