Forum › Suggestions › Impossible Enemies

I can get why Leech was replaced with Leeching Parasites. I can get why my abilities were modified to what they were. I can live with having decreased Magic because of new equipment upgrades. What I can NOT get is why enemies are so god-awful hard to beat now? I fought 4 invader spiders at my level (level 18). They should not have been difficult at all. At one point in the fight, I had 85/1031 HP.
Something is wrong with this picture. For one, I have noticed that MANY enemies I used to be able to deal with now have, more or less across the board:

Extra Skills at EVERY TURN
Self-Purging Upon Successful Attack
Occasional Healing and Critical Boosting
Overwhelming Speed and Movement

For someone like me who is a Sage, all of the above spells trouble. With extra skills at every turn for the enemy, they are able to get in more actions than my character who has to attack in the "standard" way: move and attack. Only one of my skills (two for the class in total) grant extra skill use and I can only use those every 3 rounds. So why in the world are enemies getting extra skills with every turn? It is unfair to all players, not only sages because we are forced to obey the standard rules of attack but pretty much every enemy does not have to. It's not like the game was mad-easy before this, so I don't see why this was added. And as far as the other listed items go, what is the point of Suppressing enemies or casting other debilitating effects on them when they just purge themselves of it with every turn (of course they abuse this with extra skill, hence my title). I can handle the critical boosting but not every enemy should get that. Also, the healing? My sage does not do great damage in comparison to other classes. Even with rogues and warriors, they'll be hard-pressed to hit an enemy who is healing back pretty much 70% of the damage he just took a previous turn (extra skills anyone?) And when we get down to movement and speed, the latter which is the deciding FACTOR on when one gets an extra skill, I see no reason why an enemy with a speed of 31% (which is really high already in comparison to sage or other class stats that I have seen) is getting extra skills at a rate of 100%. And with extra skills, I can easily get cornered and I can do nothing about it. Sure I can just teleport out but I lose a whole action just trying to get away while they can catch up, use a skill to debilitate me and use an extra skill to just attack me again.


Overall, what I am saying is, I really like this game and i don't want to quit it. But with this new system you have going on, I'm attempted to take a long break from this. I've already spent money for gems on this game and I don't want to see that investment go to waste because of this new patch. I would recommend putting the enemies back as they were before so that they are more manageable. At the very least, don't give them so many skills to use as they were difficult already with the ones they had. Finally, extra skills should be back to how they always were: Up to chance and speed stat. For that matter, the speed of enemies should not be so overwhelmingly high anyway. I see no reason to believe that my getting one extra skill in 15 rounds to an enemy's 100% chance of getting that within the same duration is OK nor fair. It's not fair to the players at all. Please fix this. Thanks for indulging me in my constructive-criticizing-rant.

Well. I hate to say but agree. As a 13 lvl sage, North Point is practically unplayable for me. Also the Ashra mobs became so strong, that its quite impossible to advance.

The continuous skill usage of the mobs are making the battle long, boring and hard to challange (alone). In summary, battles became pain in the ***. And its not good for the game, but annoying. (The effect of the snow ball throwing skill is the best. thats just way too long)

I absolutly agree with the previous comments!

I totally agree, the mobs are impossibly strong. When my level 23 sage, cannot beat the level 13 mob in the quest, "The Arrath Conflict," something is very wrong and out of balance. My level 17 ruffian cannot beat them either.

Many of the battles against much lower level mobs are taking way too much time and effort. This just makes the game boring, and frankly it is very annoying. The constant healing of the mobs and frequent extra skill turns they get is just ridiculous!

I hope something is done about this soon, or else, I for one, will not be spending any more money on gems.

I don't play for a few days, and this happens? No way to test it myself yet but it sounds really out of line...
anyhow, kudos to Matthias for putting it so elaborately and respectfully.

Sadly I can also understand these problems. Even with my level 25 sage not so easy the game (and yes..I also've got problems with the "araths"

So..I can understand the purpose of the developers but now I think the balance has gone out from the game.
As i read the game's much harder with every class now,but I have to say especially the sage really turned to be a
"support" class. Even few harder mobs which're lower than my level by 10 or more than 10 almost impossible to beat down
in solo. I think very nice the group fight and I also think it's neccessary to make the game better and enjoyable,but these changes
are really exaggerations sadly, I have to say.

And about the extra turn question...yes..it's really strange. I've noticed even those mobs which've got half of my speed can do extra turn against me. It's more than annoying sometimes.

@ Malcolm Reynolds Thank you!
@ Wolferhu Exactly. I can get that the developers are all concerned about balance. I can even (albeit grudgingly) agree that Leech helped to kill bosses pretty easily. Think about it. It was essentially "Keep the Sage alive while he leeches enemies to death." In retrospect that DID make us really important in a battle. But anyways, with the new patch, the game is anything but balanced and weighted heavily against the player. Making enemies stronger is fine but making them break game-play mechanics in order to do so is a cheap way of solving that problem.

Hell, I'm afraid to log in.

I only want to join the ones posting before me: every combat starts with the mobs having +20-30% damage, then extra skills in each round - I've no chance to defeat any of them on my own, not on my level but below it either. I've been in the game in the closed beta, I've invited several people to join but now for the last three days there was no possibility playing. Well, it's f***ing annoying. I'm not sure I want to keep on trying anymore. Really too bad because it was a fun game to play, especially as you could do it on your own and in groups too. It's just doesn't worth the disappointment anymore.

Originally Posted by Rose »if you take a minute to get to know the new skillsets

You mean wait for minutes for the opponents while they are using their healing and extra skill sets, get used to that and be happy during this time?

The battles are pretty repetitive if you play for some time past, which is the first step to get bored of them. Longer battles with long passive playing time just multiplies it.

The moderator team is pretty silent since the new patch, however you guys were really active here before that. This means that there are inner conflicts in the team since this patch. At the same time I think the situation is clear, the latest patch disappointed most of the players. As long you are trying to keep up this new direction, which makes impossible the solo playing, as fast will you lose players, potential gem buyers, at least your incomes and salary.

Seems i'm not missing much with my lockout problem. Doesn't sound like anything i want to play any more. Rose you can learn this stuff and apply it, but some of us are really lacking in the Games skill that you so clearly exhibit. You're a Hardcore hon. i'm a Wimp. Hel, i cn barely manage Easy Mode on single-player kiddie games. Serious. i don't even try Normal! You guys now gonna make a game now that's only for Hardcores? Gonna find that far fewer players will stay with it. Means the game goes back into Ghost Town with only a scattering of Hardcores online at any time. Yeh, Hardcores are more likely to regularly provide revenue, but will that balance all the rest who contribute a little bit now and then? They won't pay if they don't play.
Heck, i see my supposed ranking in HoF stats and wonder how it can be possible. Must be gemmed gear and the bonus of a teammate's buff. i sure don't play this game well. Too timid i suppose, but no way to change that. i won't be able to do much leveling on mobs half my level, doing my quests 10 levels too late. And when battles become too long, it's not fun for me: just stress. Sometimes to the point of tears. Most times i just close the browser at long fights and do housework until i calm down, but in team, i stick it out and sob my way thru. i don't wanna do such fights at *every* battle!
And as for teams, i cn rarely find one that will take me. Most players start the fight long before i cn get to them and often replace me rather than wait. Can't say i blame them tho. They might fight that Boss twice b4 i cn arrive! Others i'll admit, it's my fault. i get bitter and refuse to ever play with certain ones. Just a couple, but active peeps. But gimme a break: i should team with the person who says "good job" when other players level up but at me says it "blow job"? Not funny! And couple others i've teamed with seem hellbent on destroying all others in the team before fight is over, not ever considering the skills we just used, or the buffs we might need more than they. To team with those will only mean we all die sooner than if solo! In fact, i've had way more trouble surviving a Boss fight with a lower level player (any class) than soloing that low-lvl Boss, even with peeps who really do play quite well. i hafta protect the little guy and can't run about evading, each now and then doing my only distance attk and healing even more rarely . . .
No for the most part, i wanna solo. Don't take that away from me if you want me to play here.
i agree totally that certain portions of the game should be Team Only, but i don't wanna be *forced* to team for just plain quest mobs. If the entire game is gonna become Team Only, then i may as well stop trying to log in. Other games handle this btw in Instances: dungeons or towers or such that can be won only in Team. Wimps like ama can still play on Baby Mode in most quest fights.
And maybe i'm reading these posts all wrong: maybe you do not actually mean to include every fight. But from the last i was actually able to access the game, it seemed that the fights i was facing were almost out of my ability at my own level. Hope Rose is right that the fights won't be this difficult for very much longer.

Oh Ama don't be depressed. Believe me, I'm no hardcore expert either, and it's working out just fine, especially for warrs. Basically there are groups of mobs now that I can't beat alone--I don't mean bosses, just lots of ordinary ones. The devs may indeed need to add say some smaller groups or single mobs for us weaker folk. But if we ask, after trying the present system, you know they will. So....come back, please. You are much missed. There are still plenty of fights that don't require groups, and especially it is not the case that you have to run around defending as warr. I carry Hold the Line, Power of Will, and Battle Cry--every thing else is attack. works just fine so far
Power of Will is somewhat better than before, though not enough to say warrior wasn't nerfed some. Still, life in Nadirim is far from impossible, especially in the instance, atm.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. The patch and the fuzz about it is wrong on so many levels. Some of these thoughts are answering your post, but others are just general comments to the patch, please don't take them personally.

1) You are a devoted player and part of the crew. You spend countless hours in the game, you know the tricks, you probably have better than average gear and of course, experience and know-how. What's true for you (you can adapt and fight can still be easily won) is simply not true for everyone. You must understand that the majority of the playerbase is not like this. They don't have that much time, that much skill, and won't stick around no matter what like you. But they are who can make the game profitable, and therefore they must be kept happy. And it's not "dumbing down the game to the stupid masses". It's making it accessible for others than hardcores... The competition for the players' valuable time is fierce. You are up against damn Zynga here! The last patch, in my opinion, completely ruins the casual gamer's experience and can chase players away in silence. They won't wait weeks for a patch that will maybe restore the balance. The people who come here to complain at least care a little. Most of the disappointed players won't. And it's wrong to be elitist and say 'let them go, then'. Financially and ethically too. If a free browser game is aiming for success, it must cater for these players too.

2) This is a live game now and no longer a beta. It's OK to fine tune it, but not at all to entirely remove skills or play around with them with the subtleness of Godzilla. If it must be done, it must be done carefully, and tested thoroughly. If it's not ready, it must be delayed (and the winter stuff still rolled out in time). You may find it acceptable and easy to adapt to such changes, but most players don't want to re-learn all tactics with a patch. As I said above, their time is more valuable than that. It's still a browser game that most people probably play for quick, casual fun.

3) "The changes to the skill set were made based on player suggestions". Thats not a valid argument to anything, more so because it basically says "you guys wanted this the devs just implemented it". Hardly. There are dumb suggestions too (I know I had some), and even if not, the devs have the final call and responsibility on how to implement it. Thus, the changes are how they wanted them to be - or otherwise the testing has been insufficient. They may want to adjust the methods or amount of testing done. Maybe not with full gemed gear but with what's available to the average player, on several levels...

4) Soloing bosses or some mobs mostly impact higher level players. It's not a good answer to make the game freaking hard for EVERYONE. See point 1) about how most of the playerbase is... why not just tune up some mobs, or some bosses? You don't want me to solo bosses? Very fair. But I still want to be solo the other 95%, which I'm forced to too, because the population is low, or just doing other things.

5) I consider myself experienced above the average when it comes to tactics and skills. My gear is decent too. Some oranges, some gem stuff, and good greens. But the two scorpions next to Snake (?) Quarter that I could solo hardly but reliably in about 15 rounds before the patch, are close to impossible now. They are lvl22, I'm lvl 23. I could kill the first in about 15 rounds, then couldn't do any serious progress with the other during another ~30 rounds, when another lvl22 sage (div - you may know he's not a beginner either) came in, and we have beaten the second in like 20 more rounds. That's 2 people required and almost half an hour for 2 damn scorpions that are PART OF A SOLO QUEST. And for the quest you need like 5 more. Ridiculous. As much as I like the game and the devs, it's not that I can't adapt to these changes, but I don't want to, either.

6) Generally, all fights around your level are either no longer possible, or take 5x that much time and they are NO LONGER FUN. They don't provide any level of satisfaction or accomplishment, but only "God I'm glad it's over and I can move on". I don't care if I can help people to stay alive more, because I play most quests and fights solo. That's why they are solo quests, for Christ's sake! The damage output of the Sage was basically nullified and made him unfit for any solo fight. Life tap? Nerfed - less dmg, heal other doesn't matter in solo. Lava Globe? Nerfed. In solo the only viable strategy is to kill off the first enemy quickly. But dmg to the main target is now less. Dark ritual? Nerfed. Now it's no longer AOE. Leech? Gone. The increase to Bless is welcome but doesn't make me kill any faster. Same for worms. Add to this their extra actions and basically all fun is removed from the fights. Angelus says he's still OK - but he's lvl25 with all maxed gear (gathered when it was dumb easy). Good for him, but he's like the top 1%, out of reach for almost everyone else.

7) The amount of extra actions mobs get is ridiculous.

8) The fights in North Point are damn impossible if you are a lvl23 sage alone and they are your level. Against 2 yetis, sometimes I don't even make it to the flag (without teleport ofkoz). If I decide to fight, I can take down 25% of one, before they kill me. My parasites last exactly 1 turn. Then they fear and kill me. And they have a circle below them, which means they are for solo. And part of an event which is supposed to be about fun and not about frustration. Have the devs not played any MMO before Nadirim? Holiday festivities should provide easy to moderate challenge and a lot of fun, collectibles etc to most people. There can be great challenges for strong groups, but now, the moment you get there, your behind is kicked by the first damn mob you encounter. How is that fun? Players have resorted to having a low-level enter fights, to spawn easy enemies, and kill them afterwards. We must use tricks because the system the devs have designed does not work!

9) You don't nerf-reorganize most player skills AND make all the monsters stronger in the same patch. That's a very risky thing. Each change can have an unexpected effect on its own which can't be mitigated with a few days of small-scale testing. The two of them combined can bring the apocalypse we experience now. I hope the devs have learned from this.

10) You may say the sage is now more important in boss fights because his healing is better. That's not true. For example warriors are pretty good with their max-hp increasing shout and various buffs. Against the Rhino, I don't have to explicitly heal anything, instead I'm close to useless and taking the place of someone who could effectively help to take the boss down with you know, damage which I don't have. Even if I'm the only sage. Then, another Sage joined us, and nothing changed - meaning no healing was needed, and he also did close to no damage. (The Rhino may be a bad example cause I'm fine with the biiiig boss to be hard. But the point is, damage has much more emphasis than healing in a boss fight in my experience.)

11) I love group play, but a group that's about to do what you need to advance, well it's rarely going to happen, not on the HU server anyway. But now, even normal mobs and normal quests require groups (if you are a sage). If you are alone, you are down to doing fedex repeatable quests.

12) All in all, this patch, and the communication about it, is sadly rather amateur and one that could shake the faith in this game in many. It tells the devs are not good at estimating the impact of their actions and not quick enough to admit and steer away if an obvious mistake is made. I could look with a magnifying glass for an opinion that says the balance patch is great. For each such voice, I could find twenty+ that say otherwise. Not one of your devoted players are frustrated as hell and contemplating to leave the game at least for 2-3 months, to allow time for it to mature. Casuals may just leave.

I have ranted long enough about what's wrong with the balance patch. Now I will share, free of charge, what's wrong with the communication.

a) There was no detailed forewarning of the upcoming changes. If there was one, the devs could have gathered feedback and avoid shooting themselves in the foot.

b) Some of the changes should have been rolled back quickly and not "maybe sometime next week". It's enough trouble to learn the new tactics - the monsters could have been changed back to how they were, and a monster balance patch could have been promised for 1-2 weeks later. THAT would mean you really listen to the community and can correct heavy-impact mistakes in a timely manner.

I'll also write about the good things in the patch, in the relevant topic. But this was a more pressing issue. And I'm terribly sorry that I had to write this.

Had an additional long-winded reply but must have timed out because it didn't post.

Anyway I agree with most of what Malcolm had to say.

Malcolm, I completely agree with you, and you put my thoughts into words, so much better than I could.

I also wonder, why so many changes have been made to a game that is no longer Beta. I am a bit tired of relearning skills and changing my combat tactics every couple of weeks.

After playing with a warrior, I see just how underpowered the Sage is, it has been totally nerfed, and whenever we get something good, they take something away that was very good, or reduce the usefulness, such as Dark Ritual, no longer being an AOE skill, or reducing the healing of LifeTap. And I am still waiting to be able to use health potions in combat, like we were promised months ago.

At level 23, I am no longer able to win some level 13 fights, and I also consider myself more than a casual player, with mostly gem equipment, and with some experience at this point. I am also finding the very long fights to be tiresome and frustrating. Boss fights understandably should be hard and long, but not every fight in the game. I don't want to spend so much time per fight, but want to get on with the storyline.

I can't understand why these changes are put in place willy-nilly, without extensive testing. And with stupid explanations like,"we wanted to make the fights more challenging." Well, maybe some of us players, don't like every fight to be more challenging. Don't you even test these things before subjecting everyone to your latest whim?

Now I won't be so long..I think I have told my oppinion in my other topic as well..so..just shortly. So..I played with the "new skills" for a longer time and I made the new quests as well. And I love you Rose..but still I have to completely agree with Malcolms long and not so nice post in this question. These patch was basically wrong and shoud have to be tested much more time.

By the way..and just one more thing..but Chilo has mentioned this before as well..so..of course an online game has must improve every week if it's possible..and it's really a good thing but I think shoud have to watch the basic gameplay changes (like the skills and the strenth of the mobs) because ok..it's not an old game..but as Malcolm said it's not a beta anymore. And possible to do these deep changes..but I think not really good if these kind of changes're happening in every month and in these system. These radically changes need much more time and really just shoud have to do them if it's really neccessary and 100% if they made positive changes in the gameplay.

So..it's really an ultimate risk all time. And very bad for the players..even if it's positive because maybe the "casual players" not really want to learn the "new rules".and coud leave.

And sometimes even the "hardcore" players also not really appreciate this..if these things're happening so offten.

Sorry..if I would be long..but I think it's enough now..and I wouldn't like to repeat others..or mine oppinion from the other topics.
I just hope the next patch will be better and will help on the gameplay and the different balance problems.

*what dey sed.

Originally Posted by Reddy »Oh Ama don't be depressed.

So....come back, please. You are much missed.

aw didn't you know? i'm not gone cause of sulking over nerfed skills or tougher bosses. but 'cause the mean ol' game not letting me log in any more. trust me i'm trying to get back. just read a suggestion here that might help . . . if only i cn learn how . . .
well when i can get in, i'll see for myself, not giving up on you guys yet.

maybe this white screen login was fortuitous: nothing makes me want more to get in there and play than not being able to get in. LOL childish response, isn't it.

Suggestion:

I don't mind that the bosses are insanely tough. They are quest bosses after all. And I don't even mind that regular mobs are toughened up a bit, too. What I'd like to see is npc (npc who issue quests) should provide some class based relics (specifically consumables) related to quest that can enable a group to work with the boss fight.

I'll use example of Terror.

The npc issues a task for quest, directions for tracking boss location, and instructions on how to use a consumable which is placed in players inventory. People gather at given location, start/join a fight, double-click their consumable and gain a useful buff to damage, health, speed, critical etc. or maybe a temporary skill to beat the boss.

This can also make it necessary for people to actually accept the quest before jumping into the battle (or you could scratch out this part).


P.S.: Level based buffs! That ought to enable high level player to solo the fight as well as help same or sub-par level players to fight in group with the same boss.

Agree with every single word.

It would be a solution as well..even though I think now the complete game balance's wrong..
so..the problem's not just about the boss fights only in the current situation,

So we play the game for 10 months with all things solo.

Players cry for PVP. We finally get PVP and it just sits there. Too inconvienent to travel for duels.

Suggestion: 1. Players could be teleported to an arena...no caravaning, no walking for miles and miles...fight the duel...then be teleported back to their original location.


Players cry for the ability to make groups. Groups become a reality...but now must have challenging fights for groups, so Bosses are made.
Solo players left in the dust. No enjoyment from killing bosses. No Epic/Ledgendary rewards. Solo players at the mercy of real-time constraints and whether or not others can be persauded to form a groups.

Suggestions: 1. I think the most reasonable solution is Mercs/Minions be made available so whenever a solo player can't recruit a group
or chooses not to, can still enjoy a part of the game that is now being denied by the very basic nature of the
improvements to the game.

2. Make mobs/bosses available in different sizes depending on the size of party...have them scaled so a solo players can
deal with them; and as the party gets bigger, the mob/boss does so also, proportionately.